Last weekend, I was in New York City with the ever-wonderful Neil GaimanĀ and the extremely personable Adam Rex. Bestselling author and illustrator were in town to do a marathon signing at the delightful childrenās book store Books of WonderĀ for Chuās Day, their new childrenās book. Although it was planned as only a signing (seeing as a million-billion people showed up), they did, in fact, decide to stand up on stepladders and do an impromptu reading of Chuās Day first. It was exceptionally fun, with Neil, writer of the story, narrating the story and some illustrations, and Adam,Ā the bookās illustrator, expertly doing Chuās sneezes. (Heās very good at dramatic sneezing.)
They also answered some questions from the crowd, which is how we learned that Neilās favorite picture books as a child included The Cat in the Hat Comes Back: āI didnāt have the first one, just the sequel,ā he said, āso I thought, āāComes back?ā This is the first time Iāve met him! This is weird.ā He was also a fan of the English LadybirdĀ books, including Robin Hood, Snow White, and What to Look For in Autumn. Adamās favorites included The Monster at the End of This BookĀ (a favorite of mine, as well), which he proclaimed āan excellent postmodernist story, years ahead of its time;ā as well as The Bike Lesson, a Berenstain Bears book; and Where the Wild Things Are.
I spoke with both author and illustrator during their NYC visit, and happily, have the pleasure of sharing those conversations with you now.
Interview with Neil Gaiman, author of Chuās Day
On Twitter, the excellent cartoonist John KovalicĀ was saying it would be interesting to hear about the process of working with Adam Rex on Chuās Day, and I agree. Please tell us a little about that.
Chuās Day began when I was in China. It began with the Chinese telling me that none of my childrenās picture books were in print in China, because they showed disrespect for authority, and children doing bad things and not being punished for it, and children being wiser than their adults; so they couldnāt be published in China. And I thought, I want to do a story that has all of that – and that the Chinese will like.
One of the things Iād loved most about being in China was actually having a panda sit on my lap, and going to a panda facility. Iām a sucker for pandas. So I was sitting around chewing this over in the back of my head, and then I pulled out a piece of paper, and wrote a story about a baby panda, using pretty much the words that are in the book. Then I got it home, and thought, āI donāt know how to write a childrenās book, because the only way that I know how to do one of these normally would be like a comic script. But if I do it as a comic script, then itās long and itās big and itās complicated andā¦let me do this the easy way.ā The easy way for me was, I got a pen brush and a little book, and I drew the story out. Beat by beat, with the words that I wanted. Because I thought, āIf Iām pitching this to a publisher, I want them to be able to see what it is.ā So I did my drawings and they said yes, and once they said yes, then we had to find an artist.
And how did you end up with Adam?
Adam had been sort of crossing my path vaguely for many years, so I was kind of aware of him. In fact, he even crossed my path before I was aware of him crossing my path, because when he was an art student he gave me a MorpheusĀ meeting the Kirby SandmanĀ painting. After we were working together, he sent me a jpeg of it and said, āDo you remember this?ā and I said, āYes! That was in my house for a long time, and then it was auctioned, for the Fiddlerās Green (Sandman) convention, for the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund.ā So heād crossed my path, and every now and then Iād get a book from Adam, for a blurb, so I knew who he was. And I liked him. Iād never actually met him, but I liked his style and what he was doing.
Then I was talking to my agent, Merilee, and I said, āI have to find somebody who can draw really good animals. I have this vision; I know I want to do the world populated by animals, and I know they have to look like real animals. They canāt be cartoon animals; but they also have to do very funny, sort of human things.ā And she said, āWell why donāt you go and look at Writers HouseĀ [which is my agency]. Weāre also representing illustrators these days. See if there are any illustrators on the website that you like.ā So I looked, and thought, you know, Adamās stuff is brilliant, and thatās absolutely perfect, so I asked Harpers if theyād be okay with Adam, and they loved the idea and said theyād ask him, and he said yes. And when he finished the book, we all looked at it and went, āOhmygosh, this is great!ā and I said, āCan I do another one?ā and they said, āSure,ā so I signed a contract and Adam signed a contract to do another two Chu books.
The next one, which is already written, is called Chuās First Day at School. And for the third one, I have two different ones in mind. I might want to do Chu Goes to the Beach, and I might want to do Chuās Very Bad Day. The beach has some really surreal stuff in it. Theyād both be a little bit older than the first Chu book, because the first Chu book is for kids who can barely read. You know, kids who get stuff read to them.
Are they being published in China?
There is definitely interest in China. Iām very much hoping that Chuās Day will be published there. And that nobodyās actually going to notice that Chu doesnāt get punished, and he actually does kind of know more than his parents.
Where does Adam live, and how does that work when youāre working with an illustrator at a distance?
Arizona. It works pretty well. For Sandman, over the years, I would talk to people on the phone, and talk in email, and that all kind of works. Adam and I have actually never met. Weāre meeting tomorrow morning for the first time, and then weāll go over and start signing books and posters and things.
Since weāre speaking of Sandman; tell us about the new one. I just saw that someone has been reading the script for it, so I guess the first part is written now?
Yes, the first episode has finally been finishedā¦probably about eight months late! Because I kept getting scared.
Well, itās been years since you wrote the original series. I donāt even know exactly what this new story is about; do you want to talk about that?
No! Iām not telling anybody what itās about! Other than, well, it begins before Sandman #1. Sandman #1 opens with Morpheus being captured; heās traveled unimaginable distances, heās dressed for war, and heās exhausted. And one of the things that is kind of strange about Sandman is, I always thought a lot of people would want to know: why? Why was he dressed for war; where was he coming from? I kept waiting for people to go āWhy? Why, tell us, for Godās sake!!ā But nobody ever did! So I will be telling that story.
Well I will be excited to hear it, because when I first read it, I didnāt know you, so I couldnāt ask, but I did always wonder, āHow did he end up there? You know; heās Sandman, heās Dream!ā
He should not have been captured, exactly. And why was he dressed like that, and what was going on? So now people will find out.
Excellent. I canāt wait! So one more Chuās Day question. The story is filled with talking animals. If you were a talking animal, what animal would you be and what would you talk about?
I would almost definitely be a large black cat. But what I would do is never talk when anybody had a microphone or a camera, or there was more than one person around; so it would always be deniable. Because the last thing you want to do if youāre a talking animal is talk in public, because at that point suddenly youāre a celebrity, and theyāre taking you apart and theyāre examining your brains…
What you want to do is just drive people nuts, by sort of padding over to somebody as theyāre sitting there, you know, looking at their computer, and getting really, really upset about something not working; and you just sort of walk over, and you just say: āCtrl+Alt+Delete.ā And then you walk away. And they go, āWhat? What!! The cat is saying Ctrl+Alt+Delete, oh my God!ā
That is truly Machiavellian. And awesome. (And thank you for the interview, Neil!)
Interview with Adam Rex, illustrator of Chuās Day
Adam, tell me…is your last name really Rex?
It really is, yeah; I think I kind of lucked out. Everybody asks me if itās a pen name; because it sounds like a pen name. Growing up, I didnāt think it was anything special, because I donāt think anyone ever thinks their name is anything special at that point, but now I realize it sounds kind of like a superhero alter ego.
It does! So when did you first start getting into drawing in the professional sense; and when you were a kid, were you always drawing?
Yeah, but you know, all kids start drawing at about the same age. I think all little kids are illustrators. They all draw, and they all draw to tell stories; so when people ask me, āWhen did you start drawing?ā I feel like the real question is actually, āWhen did you stop drawing?ā – and Iām good at it because I didnāt stop at the age of ten or twelve or fourteen like everybody else does.
At a very early age I decided I was going to be an artist when I grew up, because when I was about five years old, I overheard my older brother, who was eight at the time, complaining to our mom that it wasnāt fair that āAdam draws better than me even though heās younger;ā and I wasnāt at better than him at anything, so I just decided right then and there that this was what I would do. I donāt know that everybody gets that moment of clarity when theyāre five! So I always wanted to be an artist. I didnāt really understand what that meant until I worked at a Waldenbooks when I was a teenager and kind of fell in love with picture books all over again. In my teen years I wanted to either do comics or picture books; anything that would let me synthesize telling stories and doing art.
When you first got started, did you do some work for comics, or did you start in picture books and stay there?
I never really did a whole lot of comics work. Where I actually got my start was in role playing and trading card games. I did a ton of stuff for D&D, and for Magic: The Gathering, and thatās what paid all my bills while I was trying to get into the kidsā book industry. Those were great clients to have, but what I really wanted to do was the kidsā stuff.
How did you end up doing the kidsā books?
It was persistence; but it was also lowering my bar a little bit. When I realized that nobody was giving me a book to work on, I started looking for work from the kidsā magazines, like CricketĀ and Spider, and that got me refreshing my portfolio with new pieces. I always think itās important to refresh your portfolio with assignments that other people are giving you, because otherwise, you just tend to play to your own strengths, and you can be lazy with yourself. But it was actually a piece that I did for Cricket magazine that led directly to my getting my first picture book assignment. That was a book called The Dirty Cowboy, published by Farrar, Straus, & Giroux, and written by Amy Timberlake.
And when was that?
That came out in 2003. I got that assignment in 2001.
So youāve been doing picture books for about twelve years now; and the latest is Chuās Day, and youāve signed on for two more Chu books?
Yes; Neil is on the short list of people I would drop everything for.
When you first got the job with Neil and Chuās Day, what was the first thing you did when you sat down to think about how you were going to approach it?
This was kind of an unusual case, because Neil had actually sort of made a book dummy himself, where he had given some indication of where he thought the page breaks would be, and I donāt think I really messed with that too much. I may have stretched it out a little bit; or condensed certain parts. But usually when I sit down with a manuscript, Iām going through and drawing brackets around the sections of text, and deciding, āOkay, thatās a page; thatās a page; thatās a page,ā and then I review it the first time, count them all up, and see if I actually ended up with a viable page count. All kidsā books are pretty much either 32 or 40 pages, so if you canāt make it work in that format, then you have to go back and try again. So I do that, and then once I figure out what text is going to go on each page, thatās followed by a bunch of really messy thumbnails; planning the whole book out on maybe one sheet of my sketchbook. Those sketches are so messy that really only I can tell what Iāve laid out there. And then itās just refining from there. Larger messy sketches, and then a good sketch that goes off to the editor, and then the comments back, or lack of comments; and only then do I actually start painting.
I think my favorite part of the process is figuring out what all the characters are going to look like. So there are a lot of totally self-indulgent days of just character sketches. I realize I can spend way too much time doing that; so at some point I have to cut myself off.
When you got to the destruction scenes in Chuās Day, what was your favorite part to draw?
I think I really enjoyed, not so much the actual action scenes, but the aftermath. Just the shell-shocked employees of and audience at the circus, with their various expressions. Thereās a lion-tamer in the crowd who just has this soul-searching, thousand-mile stare. Itās clear heās just, like, re-evaluating everything he ever thought about life and the universe. I think it was actually the reaction shot of everybody afterwards, after the dust settled, that was my favorite thing to draw.
I liked the gumball machine that was in mid-explosion. I like little details like that.
Itās funny you mention that, because I think my wife said the same thing. āThatās the sort of thing,ā she said, āthat I would have obsessed over. I would have wanted those gumballs as a little girl. I would have spent a lot of time looking at that gumball machine.ā
Do you prefer drawing people or intelligent animals?
A little of both, really. I donāt know why I dig drawing animals in waistcoats and hats so much, but I really seem to enjoy it. Itās a total pleasure, because if you take certain liberties with panda bear anatomy, people are very forgiving. If you take the same liberties with a human being, people say, āThatās not right.ā So itās all the fun of drawing characters and getting at whatās important about each character, without having to worry too much about whether or not you got that perfect anatomy down.
You said you had originally been interested in comics. Do you want to stay with picture books? Do you want to keep branching out and do other things? And whatās your newest project? Well; I know you have the next two Chu books…
Right, another Chu project is coming. My first novel that I wrote actually has about fifteen pages of comics in it, that I just sort of shoehorned in there, and so one of my upcoming novels, which is a sequel to that one, will probably be the same way. Whether or not I actually ever commit to doing something like a genuine graphic novel, I donāt know. Itās really daunting. Although because I happen to be friends with Scott Allie over at Dark Horse, I did end up doing a coverĀ to the Free Comic Book Day issue of The Guild.
Last question: One line of advice for young illustrators.
Keep your receipts.
Thatās excellent advice. (And thank you for the interview, Adam!)
Well! I hope you all enjoyed these interviews…
But wait! Thereās more! I also interviewed Neil regarding his myriad of other exciting projects! So if youād like to read the rest of the Neil Gaiman interview, head on over to the DC Books and Authors Blog, an affiliate of The National Press Club, and check it out!
And until next time, Servo Lectio!
TUESDAY AFTERNOON: Michael Davis
WEDNESDAY MORNING: Mike Gold